Everyone breaks their Limits!

HEY, SMASH AMINO!

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Table of Contents

Introduction

Cloud’s Limit

Rules

Other Fighters

Mario

Bowser

Link

Kirby

Olimar

Rankings

Conclusion

Introduction

Hey everybody!

Today, I decided I want to talk about what Hell actually looks like!

Today, I decided I’d look into what other characters would look like if they had similar down-specials to Cloud. I don’t have the entire cast done (obviously), although I’d totally be willing to make more of these if this post does well. That being said, any you can give me is appreciated :) Don’t be afraid of being critical; I can take it.

Cloud’s Limit

Cloud’s Limit is an absolute monster of a move. He can press down-special and stay immobile for 400 frames, take 100 percent from an opponent(s), or give 250 percent to an opponent(s). Upon charging limit, Cloud gets a couple of buffs. His Run Speed, Gravity, Fall Speed, and Air Acceleration are all increased by 10%, his Walk Speed is increased by 15%, and his Air Speed is increased by 20%. In addition to this, all of his special moves becomes immensely better, which I’ll go over briefly. Cloud’s single-hit projectile, Blade Beam, turns into a multi-hit projectile. It is generally considered the worst of Cloud’s Limit moves due to its low speed and power. Cloud’s side-special is cross-slash. It’s a great move. It’s fast, and does 19%. Limit Cross-Slash comes out frame 10, does 26%, and kills obnoxiously early. Cloud’s up-special, Climhazard, is generally seen as a pretty bad move. It doesn’t have great vertical distance, it has no horizontal distance if you don’t count Cloud’s drift after the move, and there’s even a window that won’t allow you to tech if you’re hit. Limit Climhazard goes extremely far vertically, and boosts Cloud’s air-speed a ton while the move is happening. Cloud’s down-special is Limit Charge. A great move that gives him access to greater tools. Finishing Touch is a semi-slow move that deals a ton of knockback, as well as 1%. It’s a high risk high reward move if you don’t use one of its setups.

Rules

1. The characters I’m discussing receive all of the movement buffs Cloud does unless stated otherwise. The otherwise in this scenario is a ive buff that the character would get while they have limit.

2. Certain moves WILL NOT make a character lose limit. The reason Cloud loses limit with all of his moves is because they’re all amazing kill or recovery moves. There isn’t a very creative way to make something like Olimar’s Pikmin pluck a kill/recovery move.

3. I’ll be using the characters’ Smash 4 counterparts.

Other Fighters

Mario

Mario would get all of the basic buffs Cloud does when he charges limit. The main thing this would do is increase his already great combo game.

Neutral-Special - Ice Flower

This move has the same frame data as Mario’s fireball, with a couple of changes. It can be land-cancelled, and freezes any opponent above 50%. This move changes Mario’s gameplan the most by far. This becomes his best option in the neutral. Short-hop Ice Ball is great at forcing an opponent to shield, and limiting their options. If they are hit by this move, you can hit them with a well timed ladder-combo when they are unfrozen, or F-Air spike them at the ledge. While recovering high, Mario could fire and Ice Ball toward the stage to help him safely recover. There isn’t much to say about this move other than that it makes Mario’s neutral a ton better.

Side-Special - Cape

This move has two uses. The first, presented on the left, is recovery. Like in Super Mario World, Mario can glide. Like in Brawl, the ability to glide is indefinite. This gives Mario a free recovery if he is above the stage. In addition, gliding will not put him into free fall. The second use of this move, featured on the right, is a dive bomb, a frame 12 move that rockets Mario downward. It’s hitbox from frame 12-22 is the strong hitbox, spiking anyone who comes into with it. After frame 22, this move becomes slightly weaker. It still spikes, but it isn’t as devastating. If Mario lands with this move, it has immense damage and knockback, and can even break a slightly damaged shield. However, his move is probably best when done out of gliding, as it can snap the ledge with proper spacing.

Down-Special - Ground Pound

I know what you’re thinking. You’re thinking to yourself that this must be a garbage move like all the other similar moves in Smash, whether it be Bowser, Yoshi, or Kirby’s down-special. This move’s worth lies not in its descending hitbox, but the hitbox it has when landing. In SMBU, two simultaneous ground pounds kill any on-screen enemy. That would be a little broken in Smash, so, instead, this move will stun any enemy for 75 frames. This is a great option after a move that forces a tech, such as F-Throw.

Up-Special - F.L.U.D.D.

From Super Mario Sunshine, F.L.U.D.D. acts as a great recovery move. Mario can either tap the B button to rocket himself up quickly, like in the image above (This will be referred to as ‘quick up special’), or hold B, letting him hover (This will be referred to as ‘long up special’). This allows Up Special to have a couple uses. First, you can recover (obviously). Quick Up Special is probably better for this, as your opponent has less time to edgeguard you, although Long Up Special could be used for mixups. The second, and infinitely more fun (or infuriating if you’re on the receiving end) is edgeguarding with Long Up-Special. The water coming from F.L.U.D.D. windboxes any opponent who goes under it downward, and, since this move is active for a long period of time, is basically a free-stock at any percent.

Bowser

Bowser gets all the same buffs as Cloud when he gains limit. When he gets limit, Baby Bowser climbs into Bowser’s back (This’ll make sense when I talk about his Up-Special).

Neutral-Special - Fire Flurry

This frame 16 move allows Bowser to spew five balls of fire that covers an area that’s nearly 90 degrees. Every fireball is launched at once. This doesn’t do too much for Bowser’s neutral, although it helps him zone out he opponent a little better. This move could potentially force the opponent to shield, letting Bowser get one of his devastating grab combos.

Side-Special - Rolling Stone

This move is very similar to Sonic’s Spindash. It doesn’t have to be charged, has super-armor, and comes out frame 4. This move can be jump-cancelled, and is by far the best of Bowser’s limit moves. It does 14%, can be shield cancelled from frame 1-30, and combos into aerials. To ensure that this doesn’t become the best move in the game, it will be slightly slower than Sonic’s side-special.This is probably tied for the most important Limit move in Bowser’s arsenal. What move shares that spot?

Down-Special - Hammers

This move, quite like Snake’s grenades, is an excellent tool in the neutral. Bowser’s hammers can be pulled out, held, and thrown at his desire. These come out frame 2, can be tossed at frame 11, and do 6%. They have about as much knockback as Cloud’s non-Limit Blade Beam. These are good for zoning opponents with short range, as well as forcing the opponent into shield. Additionally, these can be used for some flashy setups.

Up-Special - Baby Whirling Fortress

This move is very similar to Whirling Fortress, although Baby Bowser gives Bowser a hand. Like in Partners in Time, Baby Bowser hits Bowser with a hammer, and launches him in his shell. This would be a viable kill move onstage, coming out frame 14. Offstage, this move can be angled in any direction, and has extended distance and speed, greatly improving Bowser’s recovery.

Link

Link gets all of the normal buffs that Cloud does when he gets Limit, plus the ability to glide with King Bosphoramus Hyrule’s paraglider, and has no aesthetic changes.

Neutral-Special - Ancient Arrows

Ancient Arrows aren’t a huge part of Link’s neutral, as he loses limit upon using it. However, it kills anyone above 100%. If the opponent is below 100%, it has the same knockback as a Cloud F-Smash. Additionally, you don’t have to charge them.

Side-Special - Giant Boomerang

This move, also from BOTW, is a large projectile that greatly limits the opponents options. It comes out frame 21, and deals 15%. There isn’t much to say, other than that this works really well when zoning with his next special...

Down-Special - Remote Bomb

This move is amazing for zoning, as you can pull out multiple (5) bombs, and only lose limit when you detonate your bombs. These bombs are great for zoning in neutral. Paired with a giant boomerang, they could break a partially damaged shield. Additionally, it can help with edgeguarding. It’s large and lingering hitbox is great for two framing, plus you can throw it off the stage to gimp someone. I’d say the best use for this is planting several on the stage to cover several options.

Up-Special - Revali’s Gale

This Up-Special is fairly basic. Link is boosted high into the air, and glides with his paraglider. It’s great for recovering high due to its quick air speed and air acceleration. Additionally, it snaps to the ledge.

Kirby

Kirby received the basic buffs Cloud gets, plus one extra midair jump, and no aesthetic changes.

Neutral-Special - Super Inhale

From Kirby’s Return to Dreamland, Kirby’s succ becomes a super succ. This doesn’t do much, other than come out frame 6, and have more range. I think this would be pretty good for comboing after a D-Air. This move isn’t great without its combos due to its long endlag.

Side-Special - Spinning Hammer

Kirby’s default side-special is... not a great move. It comes out extremely slow, even if it’s uncharged, and you’ll be punished hard for whiffing it. Kirby’s Limit side-special would be a frame 19 move that propels Kirby forward. This would have a little less knockback than a Bayonetta F-Smash. Other than killing, I don’t see this move having much other use.

Down-Special (a) - Rock Uppercut

My first idea from Down-Special comes from another horrible Kirby move. Kirby’s Limit Down-Special is very similar to Mega Man’s Up-Tilt, with 1.2x knockback. This move is mainly a kill move, and wouldn’t help Kirby in any long-term way, as you lose limit upon using it. Doing this after landing with D-Air would be a great kill confirm.

Down-Special ( :b: ) - Web

My second idea for Kirby’s down-Special doesn’t stay true to the original copy ability, but I found it too interesting to leave out. This move allows Kirby to spawn a web that applies witch-time like affects to the opponent. It stays out for 40 seconds, although the speed that this timer counts down doubles when the opponent is inside of it. However, this would only slow the opponent by 30%. The best use of this move is either covering ledge-options, or after a landing D-Air. After this, repeatedly hit the opponent with landing D-Air for easy percent, and close with an up or down smash.

Up-Special - Star Allies Sparkler

From Kirby Star Allies, Kirby gets the Star Allies Sparkler. This move would be similar to Duck Hunt’s up-special, but have the air acceleration and air speed of Brawl Wario. It snaps ledge, making it great for recovering low and high.

Olimar

Olimar gets all the basic buffs Cloud does, with a few extra changes. Pikmin now have the priority of a projectile (Brawl Meta Knight’s Sword), meaning you cannot trade or beat them out (Unless they are latched on to you). Additionally, Olimar can now have five pikmin at once.

At least it’s not six lol that’d be busted

I had to take a different approach with Olimar, because I can’t change his neutral or side-special. To make up for this, I gave him two alterations for his new down-special.

Down-Special - Spicy and Bitter Spray

Olimar’s new frame 13 down-special, Ultra Spicy and Bitter Spray is extremely good for taking stocks. You can switch between the two sprays by holding shield and pressing B. Ultra Spicy Spray gives the pikmin 1.2x health, damage, and knockback. Ultra Bitter Spray has 9 frames of endlag, and stuns the opponent for 129 frames, giving Olimar two seconds to punish the opponent. This move is best used for reads, as well as when you have purple or red pikmin.

Up-Special - Jetpack

Olimar’s limit up-special comes from Hey! Pikmin. This up-special flies Olimar the same distance regardless of the pikmin he’s carrying, and has a hitbox. This is probably the worst of Olimar’s limit moves, as his recovery is already good.

Rankings

This portion is mostly my opinion, so feel free to disagree with me in the comments. First, I’ll be discussing the characters, starting from the best, and ending with the worst. After that, I’ll put all the characters into a tier list with the rest of Smash 4’s roster. Without further ado, here’s who I think is the best of these five.

Bowser

The two moves that I think help Bowser out a lot are his hammers, and rolling stone. Hammers are great for spacing someone out, conditioning them to shield, then grabbing. Not only that, but having a projectile to throw helps a character with little dists a ton, especially if said projectile is able to be carried, rather than thrown immediately. Rolling stone is good for a couple reasons. First, rolling stone into up-air would be busted. Second, Bowser has the 50-50-like option of running in and using rolling stone, or shield cancelling rolling stone towards the start of the animation and grabbing. The main weakness I see with Bowser is that he’s even more of a punching bag with he added weight and fall speed from limit’s movement buffs. Overall, Bowser is now solidly top 10.

Olimar

Olimar’s new specials don’t give him too much. The main thing that makes him the second best of these five characters is pikmin having the priority of a projectile. All of Olimar’s moves are now hugely disted. Additionally, Ultra-Bitter Spray is a great way to confirm a kill. Limit Olimar doesn’t have a ton of buffs, but the ones he has make Limit extraordinarily rewarding, which is why I think he’s not only the second best theorycraft limit-break character, but at least a top 15 character as well.

Mario

I think Mario is solidly top 15 without limit, so this change is certainly good for him. Personally, I think the main move that benefits him is down-special. Being able to stun the opponent is a great change. Another move that earns Mario this spot is his elongated up-special. Being able to windbox almost any character trying to recover at any percent is an inconsistent, yet rewarding edgeguard. Similarly to Olimar, the buffs Mario gets aren’t plentiful, but they certainly count. For this reason, Mario is the third best limit character and a solid top 15 character.

Kirby

Kirby with limit isn’t amazing like Bowser or Olimar, but it certainly helps him out. His recovery is already pretty good, and the Star Allies Sparkler only makes it better. He has great kill moves after a landing D-Air, and Spinning Hammer makes that better. Additionally, his down-specials would make killing immensely easy. Rock Uppercut could be done after landing D-Air, and landing a Web on someone above fifty percent onstage is a free stock. Offstage, Web gets Kirby a free D-Air footstool, taking the stock at any percent. This is the main reason I think Kirby deserves the #4 of the theorycraft limit characters.

Link

Unfortunately, Link takes the fifth place spot. I simply don’t think his limit moves are that much better than his original ones. His recovery was already fine, so it’s buff didn’t do much. The main buff Link got was his Ancient Arrow, but even that isn’t huge buff. Bombs help with stage control, although Link was already great at that, and 5 bombs isn’t really worth losing limit for, even if they kill at ~85% center stage. Limit is great for giving characters kill power, although Link already had plenty of that, which is why I think he’s the worst limit character, as well as top 25.

Diagram

(I definitely don’t agree with this entire tier list, which is why you see things such as Mario moving down. This is just to give you an idea of how I think the characters would fit into competitive play).

Conclusion

Well, that’s about all I have to say. I’m sorry I haven’t been posting recently. It’s obvious I’m not one of the top bloggers on this amino, but I wish I could post more. I get caught up with school, and I hate forcing posts. Unfortunately, I’m not motivated often, so I don’t get around to posting something until I really feel it works for me. Regardless, thank you for reading this far.

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