Regarding Counters in Movesets

#TwilightWings

#Doyaru

The content of this blog is probably obvious to most of you, but I’d like this to be the type of blog aimed towards newer of Amino, those who are inexperienced in the moveset format or are generally curious about this sort of thing. It’ll also hopefully clear up exactly WHY we look down upon counters in movesets, but this blog will cover that soon.

Eventually (it’s coming sooner rather than later), I’ll crack and make an up-to-date proper guide to making movesets, for everyone from learning beginners to advanced bloggers… I’ve waited too long to share my thoughts on what makes a good moveset and what doesn’t. It’ll come later on during the event, but it’ll come. Moreso this was a self-contained idea that I felt would be fun to talk about in a shorter, easier to digest blog, and maybe settle once and for all why this is an issue within the format.

As for the actual blog you’re reading right now, today I just wanted to put down a solid, full explanation of why counters in movesets are unappealing to most people and usually something to avoid (similar to something like Jose/2band’s blogs calling out bad movesets in general). Keep in mind the key word “usually”; I’ll cover instances where counters can actually be a good idea, so you might want to listen closely during those parts.

Again, some of this will be pretty obvious to at least some of you, so just skip the parts you don’t care about.

Anyways this intro has been going on for long enough. You guys ready for some stuff?

Regarding Counters in Movesets

They’re (mostly) fine in Smash proper:

The important thing to note is that in the actual game, I do not believe counters are not bad, even if some people might be disappointed a Special slot is “wasted” on it. I’m not trying to say that counters in general are bad… there are just some specific issues with how they’re sometimes used.

The core concept of a regular counter is both basic enough to apply to a ton of different characters while also being an inherently useful and strategic move to have. You know how they work – they only work if you know what the opponent will do (or react to a slow move) as they don’t function on their own, but if you successfully get them to attack you at the wrong time, not only will you negate the hit entirely but you’ll also automatically hit them back with their own strength multiplied against them… sometimes resulting in some of the strongest hits in the entire game. The downside being that it doesn’t work against grabs, and if they predict you trying to predict them, you’ll just be left wide open. In my opinion, that’s a solid mechanic and not a boring move.

However, that doesn’t mean there aren’t some flaws with how they’re implemented in Smash.

Other than some balancing issues in the first few games they were implemented in (which I won’t go over), the main reason why people mostly dislike counters is the sheer overuse of them. There are a whopping sixteen unique characters in Ultimate who have one in their kit somehow, nineteen if you count echoes, and other than a couple of outliers (which I WILL go over later) they’re all essentially the exact same move (some being worse, some being flat-out better for no reason); it gets boring for some, and it leads to a lot of the cast being more homogenized than they really need to be.

Again, it’s not a bad move persay, it can be pretty helpful in a character’s kit and it fits the personality/fighting style of quite a few fighters. Hell, I’m GLAD it’s in the kit of certain characters: K. Rool for example. He is 100% the type of character to make you think you’ve won and get your guard down before smacking you across the cheeks harsher and faster than ever before, and on top of helping him out greatly (being able to camp out the opponent with your own projectiles, usually without worrying about theirs due to his counter reflecting), it just fits and I’m not against keeping it. But when so many other characters have it and there’s room for so much more potential (keep this point in mind), it isn’t really that “Special” anymore, and can almost seem like a letdown rather than an interesting tool in your character’s kit.

I believe you can tell where the rest of the blog goes from there, the above point of “it’s the same move over and over again” is just the tip of the iceberg, and there is plenty more to talk about. So, while it’s a rocky but mostly fine topic in Smash proper… why is it a problem in movesets?

But they (mostly) aren’t in movesets:

Something that you end up learning when making movesets for a prolonged amount of time is that, secretly… movesets do not function the same as actual Smash kits, and are designed and presented quite differently. It is quite important for aspiring bloggers to learn what’s different.

Parts of this are slightly unrelated, but the whole thing overall is rather important to say so we should get this out of the way. When you make a moveset, you aren’t just coming up with a neat set of standard moves and Specials for whatever character you’re talking about, vomiting out some stats and calling it a day. You are making a blog and presenting it to as many people as possible, and as we all know, people want to read good blogs that keep them interested because otherwise they get bored and stop caring about and/or reading your work. And I know for a fact that most of you reading this are aware that DipperShyGuy15’s draft notes of Waluigi’s F-Tilt being a standard punch that deals 5% is very, very rarely a good blog. It’s a whole other topic for a different day, but a huge part of making a good moveset revolves around getting people to care about the moves you are presenting.

Now, you can do this in a variety of different ways. You can come up with some fun standard attack animations that keep your character distinct. You can come up with unique Special attacks that fit your character and allow them to play like nobody else in the official roster. You can flesh out the moves you describe by giving them purposes, upsides and downsides, and explain why they have a place in the character’s kit. You can prove that you care about what you’re describing by further adding to the blog with things like playstyle explanations (further showing how distinct your character is and why people should want to play them) and examples of in-game plans of attack, and you can tie all of the moves together by explaining which ones are good in certain situations and which ones you should use in others… the list goes on, but you see what I mean – movesets need to be CREATIVE AND INTERESTING TO READ for your blog to be good.

Now, I’ve got a question for you: is copying a move from a pre-existing character creative or interesting?

Let’s say HorrendousMonster decides to make a blog about whatever character the dart hit on the spinning corkboard (idk, perhaps some random anime protag) and they’re really struggling to come up with a good, fitting Down Special. Everything else was easy, but they only need one more move before they can post. So they come up with the genius idea of a counter; it fits their character because they’re really smart and strong and can easily block any blow before returning the hit five times stronger than before, it’s really easy to describe, and it solves their problem. So they put it into the blog and post it, and about three days later, their blog caps at thirteen likes and two comments, never to be featured despite how much effort they put into it and how badly they wanted it.

…A slight exaggeration, but there’s an evident problem with this whole thing. You know all of the points I made moments ago? How does a regular counter fit into the applicable things that make a good moveset blog?

- Is it a unique Special attack that allows them to play differently than any other character? Kind of difficult to say that when, again, basically SEVENTEEN other characters have the exact same move and use it in the exact same way.

- Can you flesh it out with a reason to use it over other moves, or explain the upsides and downsides of it? I mean… you can tell people that if successful it hits really hard and if unsuccessful you’re left vulnerable, but that applies to not just any other regular counter but also ANY HARD-HITTING MOVE IN THE GAME, so rather than clarifying the intended purpose of your move, you’re just saying the blatantly obvious.

- Can you explain when you should use it and when you shouldn’t? Again, you could, but you’d basically be doing the same thing as telling your 7-year-old brother that no, Little Mac’s Down B isn’t useless, you just have to get hit for it to work.

Is any of this interesting? Absolutely not.

No, putting a basic counter into your moveset isn’t going to ruin it. But doing so is basically just shooting yourself in the foot because you’ve wasted an entire Special move, an entire game-changing ability mind you, with a generic mechanic that pretty much any other character could use and fit just as well. I haven’t mentioned this yet but Specials are one of the most important parts of a moveset – they’re your character’s biggest chance to shine, they can be anything you want them to be (attacks, retreats, status buffs, status debuffs, gimmicks, recoveries, memes, ANYTHING), they’re the shining moves of your blog… and you decided to make it a counter. Why!? Because you were too lazy to come up with something more interesting? Because “it fits”? Nonsense.

Putting a regular Down Special counter without anything else to make it interesting is one of the worst things you can possibly do when trying to make your blogs interesting to read. It’s like blatantly itting that you can’t come up with a good character concept and just gave up trying halfway through. Try harder than that.

…However.

As much as I shit on counters in movesets, there are ways to do them well. If you noticed, I mentioned earlier that there were exceptions to the basic counters in Smash itself, and I haven’t properly brought them up yet.

Let’s talk about those.

There are always (interesting) exceptions:

So MangaLavaz and Globally Dust are still really tempted to make a counter, but are worried it’ll be too similar to so many other blogs. What do you do with the mechanic to make it interesting? Well, official Smash itself proves there’s plenty to do.

Ignoring ones like the reflect counters (basically just counters but better) and Mii Brawler’s (really cool and relatively unique, but ultimately does the exact same thing, just differently), there are three counters in Smash that completely break the mold and are quite creative in their execution.

Bayonetta’s Witch Time was the first counter that did something other than immediately attack back; once hit, she drastically slows time for her opponent, leaving them extremely vulnerable to punishes such as lengthy combos or charged Smash Attacks as they’re stuck in the endlag of their mistimed attack. Was it broken in the first game it appeared in? Probably, but overall… a really creative counter that not only fit her but was a distinctly “Bayo” move – pretty much no other character will ever have that same move as her.

Incineroar’s Revenge tanks whatever move hit him, but instead of unleashing it, basically stores that power for you to use with any move in your kit, drastically strengthening your next blow and potentially turning some of your strongest moves into absolute monsters that could easily kill your opponent in one move, if not make the next move kill even if they were at low %s earlier. But it’s a surprisingly tactical and risky move; not instantly attacking back means you need to land a hit normally to get the effects, so you have to be careful about what you use and how you use it… should you go for your safer/faster moves that give you a greater effect, or go for one of your power hits for maximum pain? Throw in the fact that you can lose your power by getting hit too much, and the ability to stack the counter’s effects for even more pain and strategy (should you keep going for more counters and risk losing them all at once, or use whatever you can asap?), and you’ve got yourself an insanely interesting counter, one that arguably almost defines Big the Cat’s playstyle all by itself.

And Joker has Rebel’s Guard, a counter directly tied to his signature mechanic. While Arcene isn’t out, there are other ways to charge up his meter to get him, but his counter is the quickest and best method to do so – whereas he normally needs to take ~75% to summon his Stand from an empty meter, getting hit while the counter is active reduces that maximum to a tiny 25%, even less if he’s already been using it or has taken damage prior. And you can even choose whether or not the counter attacks back, it won’t be very powerful but it’ll get the opponent off of you, and damage dealt is damage dealt. Sure, once Arcene comes out it turns into a generic reflect counter (fuckin’ LAME), but RG is still a really cool concept and a creative, fun way to access Joker’s unique mechanic in a way no other character can.

You see how much I could say about those three moves while briefly summarizing them? Not only are they beloved by the community despite being technically counters (ignoring Smash 4 Bayo being Smash 4 Bayo), if they were in a moveset before being in the game, anyone reading it would be legitimately interested and find you to be quite creative. Obviously I’m not saying that you get a free if your moveset copies Witch Time instead of a regular counter, but there’s plenty to work with if you just think about the character’s source material and potential ways you can use it.

Apart from the above examples, there are quite a few other unique ideas for counters one could think of pretty quickly. Perhaps your chosen character can debuff the countered victim in ways other than the Timer item – maybe it poisons the victim for a huge amount of damage over time but doesn’t deal knockback, or allows you to choose between reducing your opponent’s speed or strength for a lengthy period of time, making them easier to fight. Perhaps certain moves cannot be used until you’ve countered the opponent a specific amount of times, forcing you to willingly risk getting hit in exchange for possibly the best moves in your arsenal (although that might be a bit similar to Arcene, it can easily be made separate and distinct). Perhaps you even come up with a counter that doesn’t retaliate at all, but instead allows you to retreat instantly and safely, or sends you flying upwards like an Up Special if you’re hit offstage for a free recovery? Any of those would be quite interesting to hear you talk about, and overall pretty unique moves in the context of Smash.

And that’s not even mentioning all of the “pseudo-counters” in Smash that can function similarly to counters while staying unique… things like Ryu’s Focus Attack or Little Mac’s Smash Attacks which aren’t activated like counters but have armor that allow them to tank blows without flinching and continue to attack the opponent, Villager’s Pocket which allows them to store projectiles and use them later whenever they feel like it, or Meta Knight’s Dimensional Cape which lets him teleport behind the opponent and strike quickly yet harshly. All sorts of moves could be designed that feel unique yet still allow you to play the same way a regular counter would.

Never settle for a basic run-of-the-mill “get struck, strike back, does nothing else” Special that wastes everyone’s time and your own potential. Movesets are one of the best ways to show everyone on this app your own, creative ideas for new moves and mechanics in Smash, and I’ve seen some delightfully fun counters in various movesets already. Nothing’s stopping you from thinking up some fantastic moves, so go nuts.

Farewell:

This was a different blog than usual (not just content, but tone as well) that is a bit shorter than usual, but I had a lot of fun writing it. I hope it helps everyone understand what’s so bad about counters yet also showing them that there’s good in them too, without being too rambly like my other work or complete shit… like my other work. Otherwise though there isn’t too much else to say. Other than bepis.

If any of you guys have something to say, I’d absolutely love to hear it – counters in general are a rather interesting topic in both Smash proper as well as movesets (yes, I’ve seen MockRock’s video), and I’m certain loads of you have interesting opinions to share. And if you want to tell me my blog’s garbage, go ahead; if there’s a way to improve it, it’s a good idea to do so.

All that being said, you’ve read this blog for long enough, so we can end it here. Once again, thank you all so much for tuning in to my blogs, and I wish you all a wonderful day.

Or night, idk when you’re reading this.